Player Discussion Vincent Desharnais

[alanschu]

It would also get him very close to a full pension. That is something we don't talk about often but for a guy with 10 years it is $275K US per year indexed to inflation at age 62. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Oh yeah that is something that I didn't consider.

Is pension based purely on years in league? If he were to be bought out (probably not at that price point) he wouldn't get to keep the "years of service" or anything.

I found a chart! The NHL Pension - Trans Canada Wealth Management

 

[guymez]

I'd love to see him re-sign with us this summer, but I fully expect some dumb GM to give him the Erik Gudbranson special (4M X 4 years), which we can't touch.

I like the idea of trying to lock him up long term if he would do that at a lower cap hit. The old Calle Jarnkrok 6 year, 2M cap hit deal would be fine.

I wonder if Broberg could play 2nd pair RD with Nurse next year. I don't really want to move on from our Kulak-Desharnais pairing if we don't have to.

I agree with you about Desharnais.
If he is willing to sign for $2M then you absolutely do it even if it means a 6 year contract.

Moving forward though I just dont see any way the team can justify keeping Nurse after next season.
Thats when Bouchards next contract comes up and he is going to demand big money.
Bouchard appears like he will actually be worth his contract.

 

[CROTT]

It would also get him very close to a full pension. That is something we don't talk about often but for a guy with 10 years it is $275K US per year indexed to inflation at age 62. That's nothing to sneeze at.

I didn’t know the specifics of the pension so I looked it up. Here’s a link for those also wondering with out having to read the CBA etc.

The NHL Pension - Trans Canada Wealth Management

transcanadawealthmanagement.com

 

[BarDownBobo]

That would be a big win for both player and organization. Vinny belongs here and seems like a loyal guy. No guarantee success follows elsewhere (see Kostin)

This is probably grasping at straws a bit but it seems like Vinny and Kostin are close, just based on seeing some stuff from Kostin’s social media the last little while. I wonder if seeing Kostin’s struggle to find a fit after chasing money might impact Vinny’s decision and make him lean towards security in a place he’s comfortable.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I agree with you about Desharnais.
If he is willing to sign for $2M then you absolutely do it even if it means a 6 year contract.

Moving forward though I just dont see any way the team can justify keeping Nurse after next season.
Thats when Bouchards next contract comes up and he is going to demand big money.
Bouchard appears like he will actually be worth his contract.

How we justify keeping Nurse and how we realistically move Nurse are both issues that may need to be addressed sooner than later. For the record, I hope we can find a way to keep him. I liked Bieksa's assessment of him - that he isn't as good offensively as Bouchard, or as sound defensively as Ekholm, but he brings a lot of what both do together. The salary is about to get really tight with Bouchard, Draisaitl and McDavid all needing new deals. Skinner soon as well.

 

[guymez]

How we justify keeping Nurse and how we realistically move Nurse are both issues that may need to be addressed sooner than later. For the record, I hope we can find a way to keep him. I liked Bieksa's assessment of him - that he isn't as good offensively as Bouchard, or as sound defensively as Ekholm, but he brings a lot of what both do together. The salary is about to get really tight with Bouchard, Draisaitl and McDavid all needing new deals. Skinner soon as well.

Thats a fine assessment of Nurse but the issue is that skillset isnt worth the cap hit.
Nurse might be worth $6-7M but most centainly not $9M+ and carrying Bouchard at what looks like will be around $9M and Nurse just isnt going to work IMO.
Especially with Drais next contract coming up right around the time when Bouchard signs his new deal.

 

[Mr Positive]

Thats a fine assessment of Nurse but the issue is that skillset isnt worth the cap hit.
Nurse might be worth $6-7M but most centainly not $9M+ and carrying Bouchard at what looks like will be around $9M and Nurse just isnt going to work IMO.
Especially with Drais next contract coming up right around the time when Bouchard signs his new deal.

If we can all admit that Nurse is an important player on the team, but overpaid, isn't that enough to drop the issue? Imo the ones worth discussing are guys like Campbell, where he is overpaid and not a contributor, and we have something to discuss, like whether to buy him out or not. With Nurse, he has a NMC so there's no options there. Buying him out removes any advantage as we'd just have dead cap instead of an overpayment.

With Nurse the hope there is that he has a lot of term left, so his cap percentage has lots of room to shrink. He will also likely age well, as he is physically gifted.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If we can all admit that Nurse is an important player on the team, but overpaid, isn't that enough to drop the issue? Imo the ones worth discussing are guys like Campbell, where he is overpaid and not a contributor, and we have something to discuss, like whether to buy him out or not. With Nurse, he has a NMC so there's no options there. Buying him out removes any advantage as we'd just have dead cap instead of an overpayment.

With Nurse the hope there is that he has a lot of term left, so his cap percentage has lots of room to shrink. He will also likely age well, as he is physically gifted.

Probably mentioned here is that what we do with Nurse is likely impacted by what we have to do to keep Bouchard. Booch can command huge coin being a rare PPG D with a huge shot and he's still young.

Nurse I've liked through the years but Booch is a gamechanger talent and one that a team cannot move on from. He's a big part of this club and Nurse stopped being that since Ekholm was here.

We likely have to shop Nurse in order to keep Bouchard. I would go longterm with Booch. He's can't miss.

 

[Mr Positive]

Probably mentioned here is that what we do with Nurse is likely impacted by what we have to do to keep Bouchard. Booch can command huge coin being a rare PPG D with a huge shot and he's still young.

Nurse I've liked through the years but Booch is a gamechanger talent and one that a team cannot move on from. He's a big part of this club and Nurse stopped being that since Ekholm was here.

We likely have to shop Nurse in order to keep Bouchard. I would go longterm with Booch. He's can't miss.

I don't see that as a possibility. Nurse has he NMC, and he likes it here. Maybe we could try I suppose, but there might be a simpler way to find the 4-5 million extra it would take to go long term with Bouchard.

 

[CornKicker]

sign vinny for 1.65 for 8 years. longevity for him and he can grow and be a lock for the bottom 4 for almost a decade

 

[guymez]

If we can all admit that Nurse is an important player on the team, but overpaid, isn't that enough to drop the issue? Imo the ones worth discussing are guys like Campbell, where he is overpaid and not a contributor, and we have something to discuss, like whether to buy him out or not. With Nurse, he has a NMC so there's no options there. Buying him out removes any advantage as we'd just have dead cap instead of an overpayment.

With Nurse the hope there is that he has a lot of term left, so his cap percentage has lots of room to shrink. He will also likely age well, as he is physically gifted.

I think that Nurse has to be on the same list that Campbell is on.
The list of self inflicted problems to be solved.

Nurse just doesnt bring enough to the table and when he does bring a strong game he doesnt do it nearly consistently enough.
IMO he is more of a liability than he is a solution and being that he turns 30 next season that strongly suggests that he isnt getting any better. He is what he is and thats by and large a 2nd pairing dman on this team and thats why his $9.25M becomes a liability.
The cap is going to be an issue as well...no doubt about that so some trades will have to happen.
In terms of tough trades that will likley have to be made I trade Nurse 10 times out of 10 before I trade Draisaitl.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Thing with nurse is ekholm is getting older and will inevitably drop off eventually so I think you have to wait and see what you have in broberg before you move off nurse. Nurse contract is bad but it’s not worth retaining 1-2 mil to move him

 

[Mr Positive]

I think that Nurse has to be on the same list that Campbell is on.
The list of self inflicted problems to be solved.

Nurse just doesnt bring enough to the table and when he does bring a strong game he doesnt do it nearly consistently enough.
IMO he is more of a liability than he is a solution and being that he turns 30 next season that strongly suggests that he isnt getting any better. He is what he is and thats by and large a 2nd pairing dman on this team and thats why his $9.25M becomes a liability.
The cap is going to be an issue as well...no doubt about that so some trades will have to happen.
In terms of tough trades that will likley have to be made I trade Nurse 10 times out of 10 before I trade Draisaitl.

Yes but you say he's a 2nd pairing guy. When you add the cap hit he is worth to the dead cap, you don't get ahead with a buyout

 

[guymez]

Yes but you say he's a 2nd pairing guy. When you add the cap hit he is worth to the dead cap, you don't get ahead with a buyout

Im not thinking about a buyout.
I think that there is a team that will be able to absorb the cap hit and wants to try and imrpove immediately.

 

[LTIR]

Interesting that the poll is still at about 50% yes/no.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Thing with nurse is ekholm is getting older and will inevitably drop off eventually so I think you have to wait and see what you have in broberg before you move off nurse. Nurse contract is bad but it’s not worth retaining 1-2 mil to move him

Nurse isn't a spring chicken any more either. IMO if he's not a legit top pairing guy on a good team now he likely never will be.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Interesting that the poll is still at about 50% yes/no.

For my part we have Stecher who is a better D, and better with the puck, better zone exits, great skater.

People are basing Desharnais play based on playing Kings who generally had one player on a heater coming into playoffs. The test will be when we play real offensive teams like Colorado, Dallas, or whoever advances in East. Desharnais struggles with speed and top offensive opponents. Kings aren't really that and Kempe the only gun.

A guy like Stecher is more valuable for instance in a series against Canucks because he's so fast nothing gets behind him. Stronger than size as well.

 

[MessierII]

For my part we have Stecher who is a better D, and better with the puck, better zone exits, great skater.

People are basing Desharnais play based on playing Kings who generally had one player on a heater coming into playoffs. The test will be when we play real offensive teams like Colorado, Dallas, or whoever advances in East. Desharnais struggles with speed and top offensive opponents. Kings aren't really that and Kempe the only gun.

A guy like Stecher is more valuable for instance in a series against Canucks because he's so fast nothing gets behind him. Stronger than size as well.

You don’t swap out Vinny for stecher. It’s not about who’s better in a vacuum it’s what jobs you need done and who is better suited to do them. Stecher isn’t blocking shots in the slot like Vinny, he’s not clearing the crease like Vinny, he’s not breaking the cycle like Vinny or laying hits. Those are the jobs we need out of our bottom pair RD. He could possibly do Cecil’s job better than him though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You don’t swap out Vinny for stecher. It’s not about who’s better in a vacuum it’s what jobs you need done and who is better suited to do them. Stecher isn’t blocking shots in the slot like Vinny, he’s not clearing the crease like Vinny, he’s not breaking the cycle like Vinny or laying hits. Those are the jobs we need out of our bottom pair RD. He could possibly do Cecil’s job better than him though.

Stecher isn't blocking shots in ownzone because he's a wizard at moving pucks out and keeping pucks out. he uses his speed very effectively and has skills. Pretty good at breaking up plays, picking pucks. But really good at zone exits and passes out. I'm not a stats guy but I'm sure stecher would spend less time in ownzone the way he plays.

Stecher does break up plays a lot. Mainly because his speed jump to get loose pucks on the boards is elite.

 

[MessierII]

Stecher isn't blocking shots in ownzone because he's a wizard at moving pucks out and keeping pucks out. he uses his speed very effectively and has skills. Pretty good at breaking up plays, picking pucks. But really good at zone exits and passes out. I'm not a stats guy but I'm sure stecher would spend less time in ownzone the way he plays.

Stecher does break up plays a lot. Mainly because his speed jump to get loose pucks on the boards is elite.

We had Vinny out in the last minute of a 1-0 playoff game last game because in terms of in zone defense he might be the best on the team. Even including Ekholm. He is elite defensively and that’s not just me saying that you can dig up any stat. Reality of hockey is even in a dominant game the other team is going to have the puck for about 40% of the game and that’s the absolutely low en. You need players whose game is built for when the other team has the puck. We of all teams know that better than anyone. I’m actually shocked there’s still posters like you who don’t appreciate what Vinny brings. Him and Kulak are one of if not the best bottom pairs in the NHL.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We had Vinny out in the last minute of a 1-0 playoff game last game because in terms of in zone defense he might be the best on the team. Even including Ekholm. He is elite defensively and that’s not just me saying that you can dig up any stat. Reality of hockey is even in a dominant game the other team is going to have the puck for about 40% of the game and that’s the absolutely low en. You need players whose game is built for when the other team has the puck. We of all teams know that better than anyone. I’m actually shocked there’s still posters like you who don’t appreciate what Vinny brings. Him and Kulak are one of if not the best bottom pairs in the NHL.

Too early to be saying that. Kings aren't being very effective working plays around net. None of their guys are on currently, It happens. I need more track to believe the bolded. You have to visualize what a team like the AV's could do to Desharnais.

I appreciate what Vinny is bringing. He's parked his dumb penalties and meltdowns in a box and is more composed now. Thats really good news. he uses his size and wingspan effectively. His weakness would be reacting to quick plays around him that frankly the Kings aren't making against any of our D. We need more track to assess. We'll know what we have in Vinny now when he does well against a team with offensive weapons. Kings barely had a 30 goal scorer this year. Only Kempe is on and making plays.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Probably mentioned here is that what we do with Nurse is likely impacted by what we have to do to keep Bouchard. Booch can command huge coin being a rare PPG D with a huge shot and he's still young.

Nurse I've liked through the years but Booch is a gamechanger talent and one that a team cannot move on from. He's a big part of this club and Nurse stopped being that since Ekholm was here.

We likely have to shop Nurse in order to keep Bouchard. I would go longterm with Booch. He's can't miss.

Agree, but I still want to see how well he performs away from Ekholm who is 33.

Ekholms career has been stabilizing the offense of RHD. From Ryan Ellis to PK Subban. And he likely won't be playing when Bouch is nearing the end of his contract.

 

[joestevens29]

Interesting that the poll is still at about 50% yes/no.

Probably because it's a poll from last year and people aren't changing their vote

 

[Oil Town XJ]

Watching Stecher play with us, no where did I see a wizard with the puck or somebody that was elite defensively. I really wanted him to push Ceci down the line up, but he's more of a 7D.

 

[Captain Controversy]

What is all this talk about Vinny signing a long term deal at a low cap? Lol