Sidney Crosby - best player ever?

[Bear of Bad News]

Someone has twelve hours to make a post in favor of the premise (and not this “my friend has my keyboard” crap).

If no one here is in favor, then we don’t need to discuss. Otherwise it’s a “bash Crosby” pile-on.

 

[Dingo]

Some people are wondering:

Let’s say it’s Sept 1992 and you get to choose any player from history- as they are. You can reach into the future to present day.

Who do you take first overall?

1992? Not Crosby. His brain would be mush before he got 7 years in.

 

[JackSlater]

My friend's mom once said that Crosby was better than Gretzky because Gretzky was a wimp. So there.

 

[Crosby2010]

Again you are comparing four vastly different leagues, quality of goalies, etc. said a friend of mine. She says adjusted numbers should take into account the quality of goaltending not just a comparison between peer skaters or era to era.

The way I look at it is this. Bossy is an elite goal scorer in his era. He averaged 57 goals per season in his career. Led the NHL in goals twice. Did not hit 70, but 69. Gretzky was a better goal scorer - let alone player - than Bossy. Mike Bossy. THE Mike Bossy. And if there is a guy who has the sort of shot and goal scorers swagger to him that compares to Matthews it would be Bossy. Quick release, nose for the net, born to score goals, etc. And yet Gretzky scored more goals than him when they were playing against each other.

I don’t see a quality of goaltending adjustment, for starters. Gretz isn’t scoring 92 today.

Matthews just scored 69. There is no doubt that Gretzky game in and game out was more consistent and was a far better overall player. Why couldn't he score 92 today? I don't know if he does, I just know it isn't impossible.

 

[Golden_Jet]

From the Love Boat?


I think a fan back then would look at the giant leap in league wide skill and goaltending and weigh the decision a lot more heavily. I mean some people are thinking that.

Actually not, they are thinking those players were the best all time, and still are the best,
and would also do just fine, using today’s equipment and rules, as they did when they played.

I mean some people are thinking that.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Crosby isn’t the best, but he has the best argument for 5th of all time than anyone else. Objectively speaking.

 

[The Panther]

The goalies in the 90s other than Hasek were basically off-duty carnies compared to what Sid faced.


Yea and Gretz dropped like 60-70 points in that span also. I’d love to hear Wayne make an argument for Sid, he’s honest to a fault.

Okay, I think we've all got your agenda now.

It's not worth my time, but I'll happily watch the fireworks if any emerge downthread....

 

[markymarc1215]

Crosby is in the Yzerman and Sakic class. Not the Gretzky and Lemieux class. And that is far from a knock on Crosby.

If you ever watched prime Gretzky or Lemieix play, there is no comparison.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Obviously not the best player ever, clearly behind the big 4. But if there was a redraft of every player at age 18, I might be tempted to take him first. He's incredibly adaptable, he's changed his game multiple times to adapt to a changing league and his age or injuries. He's without a doubt era proof, he would be a generational player in any era or style of league. Tight checking, wide open, elite goalies, doesn't really matter. And his longevity speaks for itself, 19 consecutive ppg+ seasons and counting.
And of course he's a model citizen on and off the court, zero drama and such a hard worker that it rubs off on everyone.

not the absolute best player, but for one player to build around Crosby has a decent argument. This is more of a devil's advocate post, as I personally would take Gretzky and Lemieux ahead of him.

Crosby is in the Yzerman and Sakic class. Not the Gretzky and Lemieux class. And that is far from a knock on Crosby.

If you ever watched prime Gretzky or Lemieix play, there is no comparison.

He's somewhere in the middle of those two classes. He's clearly above Yzerman/Sakic.

 

[Gorskyontario]

I don’t see a quality of goaltending adjustment, for starters. Gretz isn’t scoring 92 today.

Goalies in the last 10 years are pretty bad. If Auston Matthews can pot 69 today, I realistically could see Gretzky putting up 92.

I'm not saying he WOULD do it, but people seem to think we're living in 2011 where Corey Perry won with 50.

Again you are comparing four vastly different leagues, quality of goalies, etc. said a friend of mine. She says adjusted numbers should take into account the quality of goaltending not just a comparison between peer skaters or era to era.

There is only one league. It's called the NHL. Also I don't believe your friend exists. I'm just going to say what everyone on this thread is thinking.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Crosby was arguably the best HOCKEY AMBASSADOR of all-time.

Way, WAY tougher to survive all scandals in his era than before.

Spotlight on him since his Junior days.

He consistently represented hockey with the utmost dignity and heartwarming attitude. Like going to play with a random kid alone on an outside rink for no reason. Just the kind of thing Sid does, unscripted.

Only competition is Béliveau.

 

[daver]

Obviously not the best player ever, clearly behind the big 4. But if there was a redraft of every player at age 18, I might be tempted to take him first. He's incredibly adaptable, he's changed his game multiple times to adapt to a changing league and his age or injuries. He's without a doubt era proof, he would be a generational player in any era or style of league. Tight checking, wide open, elite goalies, doesn't really matter. And his longevity speaks for itself, 19 consecutive ppg+ seasons and counting.
And of course he's a model citizen on and off the court, zero drama and such a hard worker that it rubs off on everyone.

not the absolute best player, but for one player to build around Crosby has a decent argument. This is more of a devil's advocate post, as I personally would take Gretzky and Lemieux ahead of him.

Crosby was statistically in Wayne/Mario territory level as a prospect and in his first two seasons. He was an absolute phenom from a very young age and was also a winner at every level he played.

He, like McDavid, and likely every phenom moving forward, was as NHL ready as you could be at age 18 in terms of training and mental preparedness. Crosby was also more physically ready at age 18. It was not a surprise that he hit his statistical prime in his 2nd year, unlike most other GOATs, then not a surprise that his he didn't take that significant jump into video game land that Mario and Wayne did at their peak.

His peak came at a time that was arguably the hardest to score since the '67 expansion which tends to reel in superstar talent to the pack.

All that being said, he should be in "#5 player all-time discussion" as comfortably as any member of the Big 4 is in the Big 4.

 

[bobholly39]

Probably one of Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, or Hasek.

Not to go too off topic here, but Hasek would be an absolutely horrible pick above the other 3.

There is a ton of risk with Hasek. He didn't become a full NHL starter until age 29. Who knows how things work out in a redraft where you try to bring him to NHL sooner. I wouldn't risk passing up on Lemieux/Orr/Gretzky to find out.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Someone has twelve hours to make a post in favor of the premise (and not this “my friend has my keyboard” crap).

If no one here is in favor, then we don’t need to discuss. Otherwise it’s a “bash Crosby” pile-on.

Alright, my cousin told me to close the thread.