Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[VanJack]

I find it interesting that when the Canucks are struggling to find offense, Tocchet goes back to the Lotto Line of Pettersson, Miller and Boeser.

Pettersson's biggest problem right now is the wingers he's saddled with. But I really think that when the Canuck season comes to an end, we'll find out that he's trying to play through some injury.

The biggest red flag for me is how his separation speed has just sort of disappeared. I just never remember him been reeled in from behind as many times as he has so far in the series.

 

[bossram]

I find it interesting that when the Canucks are struggling to find offense, Tocchet goes back to the Lotto Line of Pettersson, Miller and Boeser.

Pettersson's biggest problem right now is the wingers he's saddled with. But I really think that when the Canuck season comes to an end, we'll find out that he's trying to play through some injury.

The biggest red flag for me is how his separation speed has just sort of disappeared. I just never remember him been reeled in from behind as many times as he has so far in the series.

I think it's obvious he has some kind of lower body injury. Like you said, his skating ability is absolutely goosed. No separation or acceleration. And it affects his shooting because he can't really put much lower body rotation/leverage into it. That clip of him practicing one-timers was pretty revealing...he was hardly putting anything into them and mostly just whacking at the puck with his arms.

 

[mriswith]

My point was that I didn’t think further debate would be helpful. I’ve already provided reasons why I think it is dubious that injury explains away his struggles. And you haven’t refuted or attempted to refute all of these reasons so I won’t bother repeating myself.

I said I would be very surprised if he wasn't injured, not that injuries explain away all of his struggles.

There isn’t tangible indications as far as I have seen. As far as I have seen it’s basically pure speculation. The same speculation that was present two years ago and was expressly refuted by Pettersson when it was put to him.

Sure there is. He doesn't move or shoot or attack with the puck like he normally does. He physically does not look like he does when he's on form. He's also 175 pounds and injury prone. If a guy doesn't look like he can move or shoot like he normally does that's a standard indicator of an injury.

I haven’t really gotten into the “why” he’s slumping. I’ve just expressed doubt that it’s because he’s injured.

I appreciate that you're not part of the crowd that constantly posts about how it's all because of his emotions.

So ya, I think Boudreau probably has a way better idea as to why Pettersson is slumping than you do.

Boudreau doesn't have inside information on whether he's injured or not. Pettersson's linemates are not hidden secrets that only Boudreau can evaluate.

I'm sure Boudreau is right and his confidence is low right now.

I will also be very surprised if he isn't injured right now and I don't buy the narrative at all that it's 100% an emotional issue. There is literally no one in the entire league close to his calibre and expectations who gets two 4th line anchors as their permanent wingers.

 

[JT Milker]

1 ES goal on a goalie in his last 29 games.

0 ES points in this series.

0 primary points in this series.

1 primary ES point in his last 9 games.

Stop box score watching.

 

[Bobby9]

Ill just say this.

If this season is his low point. And he scores ~90p and consistently out scores his opponents 5on5 with bottom sixers as wingers, he is a super star and worth every penny he just signed.

Ill just say this.

If this season is any indication of how he will play during the post season when it matter than his contract is a albatross.

Id rather have 2 Zad's on the back end splitting the 11.6 M to show up. EP 40 can go back to the SHL if he want.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Stop box score watching.

There's zero excuse for 1 ES goal in his last 29. Zero.

If he's that injured, he shouldn't be in the lineup.

 

[Bobby9]

Stop box score watching.

No, he is paid to score.

Thats like saying nobody should focus on Hellybucks GAA

 

[Hodgy]

I think it's obvious he has some kind of lower body injury. Like you said, his skating ability is absolutely goosed. No separation or acceleration. And it affects his shooting because he can't really put much lower body rotation/leverage into it. That clip of him practicing one-timers was pretty revealing...he was hardly putting anything into them and mostly just whacking at the puck with his arms.

It looked more like that he was practicing hitting an open net off an easy one timer the day after (I think) missing an open net from a similar position. Not sure I'd read much more into it.

In terms of shooting, he both skated well and took a great wrister last game.

I said I would be very surprised if he wasn't injured, not that injuries explain away all of his struggles.

Most players have some injury at this time of year. That isn't exactly uncommon or surprising. Good players play through injuries and get good results. Now, ignoring that, on a balance of probabilities, I find it unlikely that Pettersson's injuries are the primary reason why he has been playing poorly since like February or whatever.

Sure there is. He doesn't move or shoot or attack with the puck like he normally does. He physically does not look like he does when he's on form. He's also 175 pounds and injury prone. If a guy doesn't look like he can move or shoot like he normally does that's a standard indicator of an injury.

As noted above, Pettersson skated well and had a great wrist shot last game on that one play. Again, I am not going to go through all the reasons why I think injuries are not the primary reason why he's playing poorly. I have already set them out in previous posts.

Boudreau doesn't have inside information on whether he's injured or not. Pettersson's linemates are not hidden secrets that only Boudreau can evaluate.

Boudreau does have inside information in terms of both Pettersson's mental resiliency and, more importantly, Pettersson's last slump. Again, if Pettersson was injured during his slump two years ago when Boudreau coached him, Boudreau absolutely would have brought this up when referencing that last slump rather than explaining that last slump as being a result of confidence. Boudreau said Pettersson was one of his favourite players in history, I think, and if there was an obvious injury excuse for his last slump, then of course Boudreau is going to mention that as being a factor for that last slump. And obviously if Bourdreau knew Pettersson was injured last slump and that was all or partly responsible for that last slump, he's going to raise injury as being a possibility for explaining this slump.

I just can't believe someone would favour unsubstantiated speculation of Pettersson being injured this slump, and last slump, over his former coach basically speaking exactly on this subject. And if Pettersson wasn't injured last slump, and could be bad for a few months at a time without injury (and again, Pettersson has expressly refuted the speculation that he was injured at that time), then isn't it far more likely that he also isn't injured this slump? If it happened previously, why couldn't it happen again? Plus, it explains why he hasn't missed any games due to injury over the past few months despite the Canucks having basically locked up a playoff spot over that time.

Again, Occam's razor.

I'm sure Boudreau is right and his confidence is low right now.

I will also be very surprised if he isn't injured right now and I don't buy the narrative at all that it's 100% an emotional issue. There is literally no one in the entire league close to his calibre and expectations who gets two 4th line anchors as their permanent wingers.

You are entitled to your opinion, but his former coach, who knows far more about Pettersson as a hockey player and person, and who has coached him through an eerily similar slump, disagrees. But if Bourdrea's opinion on this matter isn't going to change your opinion then I don't know what will.

*********************

As an aside, I love Pettersson. Loved the draft pick, love the player, and his personality doesn't bother me in the least. I am rooting for him and am sure he will turn it around just like he did with his last slump.

 

[bossram]

It looked more like that he was practicing hitting an open net off an easy one timer the day after (I think) missing an open net from a similar position. Not sure I'd read much more into it.

In terms of shooting, he both skated well and took a great wrister last game.

You cannot possibly be watching if this is your conclusion. His skating is so laboured. He hasn't taken a single one-timer in-game in this series. It's because his shooting is compromised.

He has had some nice wrist shots. They don't have quite the same oomph or accuracy as we'd usually expect from him though.

When the Canucks are eliminated, it will be revealed that Petey has an injury.

There's zero excuse for 1 ES goal in his last 29. Zero.

If he's that injured, he shouldn't be in the lineup.

This is the only reasonable/fair point I've seen against Petey in this thread.

It's true. If players can't play up to their standard, they should let someone else who's healthy in the lineup, rather than try to "tough it out". It's more beneficial to the team.

Yeah, an 80% Petey is better than whoever else is up next. But we're seeing like a 40% Petey and at that point, might as well put in someone else.

 

[JT Milker]

There's zero excuse for 1 ES goal in his last 29. Zero.

If he's that injured, he shouldn't be in the lineup.

No, he is paid to score.

Thats like saying nobody should focus on Hellybucks GAA

Im trolling, he’s been terrible from an eye test too.

 

[Hit the post]

He's broken.

Not physically but mentally.

"MarkusNaslunditis"

 

[Icebreakers]

His body language is crazy. He has the body language of someone who's wife of 10 years cheated on him with his best friend and his dog just died.

That's more concerning to me than the actual hockey side of it.

This is a guy with 100m+ guaranteed in his name with a large following and in the prime of his life. He should be flowing with confidence.

If you're JT Miller or Ryan Kesler and you see your teammate like when Sedin took punches from Marchand and did nothing. Do you lose respect for them?

And we all know when you lose respect for someone you don't treat someone the same.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

His body language is crazy. He has the body language of someone who's wife of 10 years cheated on him with his best friend and his dog just died.

That's more concerning to me than the actual hockey side of it.

This is a guy with 100m+ guaranteed in his name with a large following and in the prime of his life. He should be flowing with confidence.

If you're JT Miller or Ryan Kesler and you see your teammate like when Sedin took punches from Marchand and did nothing. Do you lose respect for them?

And we all know when you lose respect for someone you don't treat someone the same.

Naslund was the same way.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Allowing himself to get dummied by an opposing goal celly just encapsulates his play perfectly.

How embarrassing. I've never seen that before, likely never will again.

 

[MS]

Naslund was the same way.

Not early on, but he was clearly not enjoying the NHL anymore after 2004, there was talk that he would retire and go back to Sweden during the 04-05 lockout ... and then he found $18 million reasons to keep playing and just looked sad and miserable for the entirety of the next 3 years, floated around on the perimeter, was a ghost of his former self.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Not early on, but he was clearly not enjoying the NHL anymore after 2004, there was talk that he would retire and go back to Sweden during the 04-05 lockout ... and then he found $18 million reasons to keep playing and just looked sad and miserable for the entirety of the next 3 years, floated around on the perimeter, was a ghost of his former self.

From this....

To this...

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Not early on, but he was clearly not enjoying the NHL anymore after 2004, there was talk that he would retire and go back to Sweden during the 04-05 lockout ... and then he found $18 million reasons to keep playing and just looked sad and miserable for the entirety of the next 3 years, floated around on the perimeter, was a ghost of his former self.

Christ, I remember the 18 game drought like it was yesterday. Particularly when he forgot the puck at center ice during a shootout. It was absolutely brutal to watch, especially because he was an idol of mine as a teenager.

 

[Bobby9]

Allowing himself to get dummied by an opposing goal celly just encapsulates his play perfectly.

How embarrassing. I've never seen that before, likely never will again.

I know he is not a fighter at all but he should of done something to retaliate.

A lot of players he faces will watch that and thrive on that deficiency in his game. He will get bullied until he stands up for himself. That sequence was v embarrassing for the team and fans.

Maybe a in-house cultural anthropologist who studied Scandinavian body language can shed some insight?

 

[supercanuck]

His body language is crazy. He has the body language of someone who's wife of 10 years cheated on him with his best friend and his dog just died.

That's more concerning to me than the actual hockey side of it.

This is a guy with 100m+ guaranteed in his name with a large following and in the prime of his life. He should be flowing with confidence.

If you're JT Miller or Ryan Kesler and you see your teammate like when Sedin took punches from Marchand and did nothing. Do you lose respect for them?

And we all know when you lose respect for someone you don't treat someone the same.

To be fair, one guy just over a year ago had a spaz on the ice and embarrassed his back up goalie (amongst other things), and the other guy forced his way out of town and handcuffed the team with his choice of 1/2 teams. I respect the Sedins much more.

(Good on JT for developing into a leader this season though. Perfect coach and perfect system for him, and full trust from management choosing him over Horvat. He has taken advantage 100%.)

 

[Hodgy]

You cannot possibly be watching if this is your conclusion. His skating is so laboured. He hasn't taken a single one-timer in-game in this series. It's because his shooting is compromised.

I was just referencing one play where he seemed to skate fine and shoot fine. I am not saying that he doesn't look bad. He obviously looks bad. But just because he looks bad doesn't mean he has an injury that is causing him to look bad.

Also, weren't you previously claiming everyone was just criticizing Pettersson based on stat watching (opposed to, presumably, him just looking bad) but are now happy to acknowledge he looks really bad? If you think he looks really bad and injured, why would you think those that were critical of him were doing this just based on stats?

He has had some nice wrist shots. They don't have quite the same oomph or accuracy as we'd usually expect from him though.

When the Canucks are eliminated, it will be revealed that Petey has an injury.

Just like it was revealed that he was injured after his bad stretch two years ago? Oh wait, that never happened and he expressly refuted the speculation that he was injured last time. And yesterday Boudreau came out and said he though last slump (and this slump) were driven by confidence issues. Its surprising that you can have so much conviction that it will be revealed that Petey has been injured after this year when he had an eerily similar slump two years and no such injury revealed followed that.

As an aside, it wouldn't surprise me if Petey did have a lingering injury. Again, this isn't uncommon. Most players, I think, are playing through some form of injury during the playoffs. But not all players play very poorly when playing through an injury. Quinn Hughes is a great example. He definitely looks like he is nursing an injury, but he's still finding a way to contribute at like 90% of what he's capable of. Petey is at like 10% so it is harder to believe that the injury is predominately responsible for that poor player.

 

[Hodgy]

From this....

To this...

He was injured in the second clip, I am sure. How else could he miss the puck like that?

 

[nowhereman]

Stop box score watching.

And do what? Watch the games? He's failed the eye test too.

At this point, the question isn't whether or not he's playing well. It's what's caused such a massive dip in his play. I do agree with others saying it's likely a combination of an injury and the mental struggles associated with that injury (i.e. low confidence). Petey has never struck me as the kind of guy to grit his teeth, bear down and fight through his ailments, instead letting them get the better of him. That said, who knows how serious it really is?

 

[bossram]

I was just referencing one play where he seemed to skate fine and shoot fine. I am not saying that he doesn't look bad. He obviously looks bad. But just because he looks bad doesn't mean he has an injury that is causing him to look bad.

Also, weren't you previously claiming everyone was just criticizing Pettersson based on stat watching (opposed to, presumably, him just looking bad) but are now happy to acknowledge he looks really bad? If you think he looks really bad and injured, why would you think those that were critical of him were doing this just based on stats?



Just like it was revealed that he was injured after his bad stretch two years ago? Oh wait, that never happened and he expressly refuted the speculation that he was injured last time. And yesterday Boudreau came out and said he though last slump (and this slump) were driven by confidence issues. Its surprising that you can have so much conviction that it will be revealed that Petey has been injured after this year when he had an eerily similar slump two years and no such injury revealed followed that.

As an aside, it wouldn't surprise me if Petey did have a lingering injury. Again, this isn't uncommon. Most players, I think, are playing through some form of injury during the playoffs. But not all players play very poorly when playing through an injury. Quinn Hughes is a great example. He definitely looks like he is nursing an injury, but he's still finding a way to contribute at like 90% of what he's capable of. Petey is at like 10% so it is harder to believe that the injury is predominately responsible for that poor player.

1. Again, as always, you show an inability to handle any nuance. Again, as I said before, I agreed that Petey didn't look great. My contention was that the only evidence people were showing (at that time, and it was true), was pure boxscore stats. And that's what was happening. I asked someone for non-boxscore evidence and they literally repeated plus/minus and points back at me.

2. Preceding this "mystery slump" you were talking about, it was well known he had some kind of serious wrist injury. Also, just visually, it looks like Petey can barely move at times, which again, suggest injury rather than malaise. There are time when it looks like he's trying to take off, but just can't. That appears more physical than mental.

I could easily flip it around? Why are you so confident it's not an injury? Are you Petey's sports psychologist? You're just speculating like everyone else, except doing so with some pseudo-psychiatric assessment.

 

[Petey O]

And do what? Watch the games? He's failed the eye test too.

At this point, the question isn't whether or not he's playing well. It's what's caused such a massive dip in his play. I do agree with others saying it's likely a combination of an injury and the mental struggles associated with that injury (i.e. low confidence). Petey has never struck me as the kind of guy to grit his teeth, bear down and fight through his ailments, instead letting them get the better of him. That said, who knows how serious it really is?

I'm pretty sure that guy is being sarcastic.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Lingering back issues? Back issues can affect everything.